That being said, he focused today a lot on "the broken and needy," implying that that is exclusively people who are unchurched. This bothers me a great deal, as I feel it assumes that people in the Church aren't broken and don't have needs. He talked about the widows and the orphans, again implying these are people outside of the Church who need the help and love of the Church. But I couldn't help thinking, "What about the widows and orphans inside the Church? Are we neglecting the legitimate physical, emotional, and relational needs of our church members simply because they are 'saved'?"
We discussed William Booth's vision as portrayed below (more info here).
Do we sometimes reach into the water to pull people out and then just assume they make their way to safety and security, turning away to "rescue" someone else without realizing they are slipping back into the frigid water? Are we so focused--with tunnel vision, perhaps--on the people struggling in the water to see the people tottering on the edge of the platform, or already slipping off, hanging on for dear life to the slippery edge?
I want to have a heart for the lost, as Jesus had a heart for the lost. Absolutely I want that.
But I don't think--in my understanding of Jesus--that he would have us neglect the needs of those who are already "saved" and in the Church. I'm not saying we need to have more potlucks or family activities or Sunday school classes or whatever. Those things are fine, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people in the Church who are hurting and broken and needy. Doesn't the Church have a responsibility to minister to them as well? Where is the balance?
I speak as one who is broken and hurting. How can I reach out to grab someone from the water when I myself am barely hanging on for dear life? And I know I'm not alone. I speak for the thousands upon thousands of churchgoers out there who are grieving, hurting, broken. As a Church, in your haste to rescue the lost--who I know need rescuing--please take some time to pull us back to safety so we are better prepared, in due course, to reach out to others.
How does one reach you if you are so insistent upon being the bridge burner that you claimed to be in your previous post? Reading through a few pf your posts reveals what seems to be a cycle of calling for help and then denying those who might provide some. (I could be wrong which is why I'm asking if this is the case rather than stating that it must be so.)
ReplyDeleteAnd would you say that the water you are slipping into is the same kind of dark waters in which someone who has never known the love of Christ is drowning?
As someone who has been in church leadership and suffered some of the wounds that come with the territory, I also have to question the true intent of your pastor's remarks. Was he really treating your church as a family filled with completely healed people or was he simply considering the desperation of not knowing Jesus at all to be an ultimate brokenness far beyond the brokenness a believer may know? (A pastor only has so much time to spend quantifying all of the angles and terminology that he uses if he wants to get to the actual meat of his message.)
If you know me, you know that while I may write big--as I often write raw and say things exactly as I see them without much refinement--what ends up happening may be different. I would love to be able to go off somewhere and not have to deal with people, but of course the truth is that no matter how much I try to isolate myself, I still have to interact with people, especially if I insist on attending church. I hate it because I KNOW I will hurt people, and I KNOW people will hurt me, and there ain't nothin' I can do about it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the water, that depends on a lot of things--one's interpretation of damnation vs. salvation, one's understanding of the persecution and trials of the Christian life, etc. I think talking about the difference in waters kind of emphasizes my point. We assume that once we're Christians, hard times will not really be so hard. We are all broken, even believers. The only difference is hope. And when Christians lose hope, yes, I think those waters are dark. Ask anyone who has been depressed--and I mean actually depressed, not just sad or in a funk. It is dark, very dark. Who am I to say my waters are darker or not as dark as someone else's?
Yes, my theology is unconventional, maybe even heretical. I'm not saying I actually believe Christians can lose their salvation or anything. I just think maybe we make too many assumptions based on our limited understanding. Jesus told us to minister to the needy. He didn't specify that he meant only the non-believers.
And let me clarify: I am NOT saying I believe the global Church thinks we should only minister to the "lost." I don't imagine anyone in church leadership would say that. But I think focusing on the lost to the detriment of the saved is hypocritical and doesn't show love. I don't want to say "love me instead of the lost." I'm not snobbish and don't think I'm worth more than an unsaved person. We are all equally valuable in God's eyes, and each of us equally should be shown love and show love to others.
ReplyDeleteI'm not explaining my point very well, maybe because it is something that makes me distraught. The fact is that in the course of my recent experience in marriage and divorce and being a single mom, I have been told that sometimes, you just have to take a break and let others minister to you. Whether that is biblical or not, I don't know, I can't say, but I think it makes sense. As a broken vessel, I can't hold God's love and pour it out to others. I need to be mended, continually, every day--not only by God but by His ministers, the family in Christ. I am not broken because I felt alone in the church. I am broken outside of the church, outside of friendships. I'm broken because of my past, because of who I am and who I'm not. I want to be whole, even if only so that I can help others become whole. Until we recognize the brokenness in the Church and its body, until we acknowledge that there is hurt and pain and loneliness, we can't help each other heal. Pointing fingers is useless. I'm not directing blame at anyone. I'm sure I'm as much to blame as any of the people around me, but that isn't the point. The point is to admit the brokenness is there so we can mend. I think the Church--not any church in particular, just generally--is good at glossing over the hurt of believers, assuming we can pull it all together because we have God on our side, or the Holy Spirit in us, or whatever. And I think that is false. Untrue. Wrong.
And again, I'm not saying I think any pastor believes we should focus only on the lost and never on the Church. But I have not yet heard a sermon--here or otherwise--in the past several years that talks about practical ways to bind up the broken-hearted in the Church. A pastor from a nearby church came to visit me a couple weeks ago simply because I had dropped in for their missions dinner. He came with two others to see us, even brought us bread. He prayed over us and our hurt, and he asked how he and the church could help in practical ways. Wait, what?! I'd only met him once, and he knew I was a churchgoer (but not at his church). He has followed up and invited us to a home group. Wow. It was humbling and eye-opening. I felt like I meant something to him and his church.
OK, enough said. I have rambled and rambled.
Jesus commands us to go and make disciples, not converts. By failing to minister to the needs of believers we are failing to make disciples. However, we shouldn't wait until we are fixed before offering the same ministry to others as we'd never be ministering to others.
ReplyDeleteAs for mixed messages, I think that's entirely normal. To point out that Saralynn says one thing but does another is pointing out human nature. Of course one who has been through divorce and depression will feel deeply deeply lonely, and of course they will long for the depth of friendship they once enjoyed with their spouse, and of course they will find it very difficult to trust anyone who tries to draw near.
I agree. The mixed messages being sent are entirely normal for this case. My questions would then be:
ReplyDeleteIf you are sending mixed messages could you also be scrambling the messages being received?"
Does your church suck at taking care of your personal needs or have your mixed signals confused them to the point that they don't know what you want from them? Have you truly conveyed your need?
Churches are far too often put in impossible situations by their members and then they inevitably fail and are accused of being "just like all the rest of those churches." It's just as common of a thing as church leadership shortcomings.
Whoa, now wait a minute. I never claimed my church sucked at anything, and certainly not that they sucked at taking care cf my personal needs. I would never say that, and I would further say it's not necessarily my church's responsibility to "take care of my personal needs."
ReplyDeletePlease remember that I am speaking here not only on my behalf but on behalf of lots and lots of hurting Christians whose churches either don't realize there is hurt or don't know what to do about it. I don't think any church intentionally neglects its members; more often it is probably just not knowing what to do. And more often than not, the hurting people don't know what they need, either. But it would be great if some troubleshooters in the church (AKA deacons) made suggestions as to ways to help. Would it be helpful if we brought meals? Or took turns watching your kids once every other week so you could have four hours to yourself? Or brought you fresh fruit? Or found someone you could talk to about what you're going through? Somebody's got to have ideas.
I can't publicly say anything more about my church because it will be taken the wrong way, so I have to leave it there.
I don't see how this post is unclear. Churches should be just as focused on filling the pews with lost souls as they are seeing to the needs of members... how is this confusing or offensive, or even personal? It is an opinion I share.
ReplyDeleteMay I ask the two anonymous posters to identify themselves in some way? I'm not certain if there are only two of you, actually, which is one sign that even a pseudonym would be helpful. If you don't want to get an account, you can just do:
ReplyDelete--Will